Ian replied:
Well, noir is such an undefined genre that, while some stuff is very obviously noir, once you venture out from that clear center it's really just a question of vibe. Absent a hardboiled detective or a femme fatale or some other clear signifier, and it's a question of, "does it feel like a noir?" Is it playing with the same themes? Does it have that fatalistic undercurrent? Is it about the appeal of a seedy underworld that exists just below the surface that will inevitably lead us to ruin? Is it about the twisted conspiracies that govern our lives, which we can occasionally succeed in spite of but can never meaningfully change? Is it about an innocent person getting swallowed whole by a world of criminals despite all their good intentions? Is it about a person of strong will who lives on the line between the criminal and the mundane, who transits freely between both worlds but never truly belongs in either?
To me, Collateral feels more like an action thriller and Nightcrawler feels more like an incredibly dark drama.
Collateral sort of resembles the trope of an innocent person getting sucked into a criminal underworld, but, in noir, they're usually *seduced* into it, and the audience is treated to most alluring parts of that world before everything falls apart. It's often about a moral weakness that overtakes an otherwise well-meaning person. Jamie Foxx, by contrast, is hijacked into that world, and it's threatening and offputting from the outset.
And Nightcrawler is about someone who's already pretty securely a part of the underworld, and already morally bankrupt, finding a new angle and making it work for him. It's almost like a noir from the femme fatale's perspective, if the femme fatale were very good at manipulating people but not the tiniest bit appealing? Jake Gyllenhaal is a sick twist from frame one, and all he does is succeed in this seedy world he's discovered.
I want to stress that I'm not disqualifying either! I'm just puzzling through why they've never felt very noirish TO ME IN SPECIFIC. They're clearly playing in similar territory, and, for all the arguing I'm doing, there's probably a lot of stuff even more tangential to the genre that I'd call noir just because it FEELS noir to me. So don't put too much stock in this! It's just my guts talking.
Anonymous commented:
Genuinely curious: why do you think Collateral and Nightcrawler aren’t noirs?